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David Bergsland's avatar

I am appalled. I've had many serious problems with the institutional church. I've been part of many denominations over the five decades I've walked with the Lord: Episcopalian, Lutheran, Methodist, Foursquare, Assembly of God, and several evangelical, spirit-filled non-denominational institutions—plus Baptist, and a few more. But what you are describing as a norm in so-called christian churches has never been part of my life in the Kingdom. I would consider people who taught things like this were non-believers. We took our daughter out of a church which taught that God does not speak to His people any more. We told her that the pastor lied.

I was pleased that in my family, all males were circumcised as babies. It was just the normal thing to do, not a religious thing. After I met the Lord at thirty years old, Acts 15:21 was always covered. Paul was always a Pharisee. The Torah was always taught as Truth, and the way to live. It was taught to me as the baseline.

We were taught that kosher was not required. But, there's not much of it in the Torah anyway. As I've matured in the Lord my wife and I increasingly found that unclean food was just not palatable to us. I assume that this is because when the Torah was written on my heart, and the Ruach HaKodesh moved inside to enable me to walk out the ways of God that the Father changed me from the inside so that those things are taken care of. We always taught Yeshua's words that it is not what goes into a man that defiles Him. It is what comes out of him that does that.

I was taught that the Torah was the law. But when I read it, it just seemed to be wise. That was true of the Big Ten also. I was appalled at the sinful nature of so many of the characters in the Tanakh. I struggled to see that Jacob was any better than Esau. But I was aware that Israel was the only believing nation in the world. It was an uphill struggle to get out of the ways of the world. Plus, I was very aware that they did not have the Holy Spirit living within them. I felt sorry for their plight.

I am aware that most of the mainline churches are inhabited by large numbers of political progressives who are functionally atheists, just like the majority of the Jews. But I have never attended a church where the Torah was dumped into the trash heap.

And now I am living at a time where it is fairly easy to show that true believers are probably around 2-3 percent of the professing Christians. Believing Jews are just as rare. My focus is on teaching people about knowing the Lord intimately and learning how to live lives which are pleasing to our Messiah. Legalistic religion is one of the main impediments. Holiness is the goal. Thank God, the Holy One lives inside us to enable that pursuit.

Laura Bartnick - Psalm Hymns's avatar

In the article you restock by Jeremy Prince, you uphold that the four branches to inherit all have carried something with them making them bothers. The Christians and Rabbinic Jews being the only people groups survivors. And, so long as we forgive debt, help the helpless, long for Jubilee, keep the Sabbath, and the Schmiz...? I'm not familiar with, we continue to be heirs or branches of the true vine.

In this article, you assert that we are to honor and keep the Torah in order to remain in the house 🏠 and ask if we feel this reading and obeying is paramount in our lives, otherwise what are we obeying?

I'm assuming that keeping the Torah is the same thing as the list in Jeremy Prince's article. And, of course, the list in Acts 15.

However, I have believed that in following Christ and the stories of scripture, I was actually obeying my master in mercy and justice.

It was just a daily attunement to prayer and fellowship with Him and doing what He might specifically direct that day.

Forgiving debtors may be a little different than forgiving debts. Either way, in my tradition, other than reciting the Lord's prayer, I do not recall at this time a teaching or other message on this subject. So I found this element lacking in my practice. Yet, perhaps not. Perhaps it is exactly what I ended up doing when my youngest sister went behind the backs of the rest of us heirs to get my mother to quitclaim her house to her and thereby stole the inheritance from us. My mother's position even in her deep regret was that my sister had stolen the house only from her not from the other siblings. The reality was that my mother wound up living with me in hospice and I had to learn to forgive her everyday because what is honor without a tender heart of forgiveness, even if the debt was a perceived debt only. 💔 Anyway, to answer your question, yes. I am willing and wanting to obey the scriptures and interested to learn more about what is to be followed and obeyed. However, yes, these things have seemed counter cultural in my world, and I feel unsafe and uncertain as to where they are leading. Therefore, honesty makes me admit that most of my learning has taken place in my head and has trickled down into my heart.

So far, the story of my church gospel has greatly been transformed, but transformed into what? I feel it is a bit of a gooey mess. Heaven and hell and the trinity have been changed. James has been confirmed in my heart and I am relearning lesson after lesson and attempting to hold the new truth in my heart and mind. History has become alive and that has true impact on my interpretation and eagerness to receive more. Still, it all continues to rest in the God man, Son of God, Savior, Rescuer. I still hold to some legal interpretations alongside the purification and rent veil. This is my best answer to your question today.

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