One more thing regarding the story of the fall of man. The “snake” wasn’t a snake at all. Serpentine was used to describe many gods of the day. Shimmering, shining beings.
The HaSatan, the voice that knows Scripture well enough to quote it, justice well enough to weaponize it, and humanity well enough to wait for consent.
I know next to nothing about Hebrew, but my understanding is the word that has been translated as "serpent" has nothing to do with its shape. It has to do with cunning and shrewdness.
What if Satan appeared as a very attractive creature, capable of speech, highly intelligent, yet a creature that existed only in that form until he was cursed? Could "serpent" be the word the translators chose because it's the first thing most of us think of when we hear of a creature that lives life on its belly eating dust? The curse, "on your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life" happened after Adam and Eve violated the one boundary God set, and probably had nothing whatsoever to do with whatever form he took when he first appeared to Eve. Or does the original Hebrew have multiple meanings that include something with a serpentine shape?
The point I was making wasn’t about shape, it was about appearance. It was about the being not having been a snake at all. I’m certain the shining, shimmering being was beautiful to the eye.
Dear Brother Sergio. Thanks to you and a few others, I've hopped off the depravity train for something that keeps our standing with God without being pathetic.
I haven't been taught any of the more extreme ideas you list. But I often wondered where these ideas about how badly God views humanity, male domination and the attitude towards Eve (and therefore women) came from. These ideas are not my experience of God and I'vnever never been able to match them up.
I've heard others rant about them and 'knew' somehow they were wrong but had no basis to refute them. I do now!
It's sobering also to see your understanding of how these mistaken ideas impact other areas of theology and society.
I just thought, if God didn't curse mankind, why do we say Jesus became a curse for us? Why did we need Him to do that if He wasn't lifting a curse from us?
Yeshua was not cursed as a sinner and He did not become evil, rejected by the Father, or ontologically corrupt.
From a Hebrew frame, He entered the covenant curse — the penalty prescribed by Torah — by dying the death reserved for public covenant violators: “cursed is one hung on a tree” (Deut 21:23).
He stands in Israel’s place, bears the shame and consequence of covenant breach, and exhausts the curse mechanism of the Law without violating it Himself.
So Yeshua doesn’t become a curse in essence.
He carries the covenant consequence so blessing can flow again.
And some worship songs don't help, they perpetuate a misconception. "The Father turns His face away" and "...became a curse for me". Though other songs are very helpful indeed. "...kissed a guilty world in love" (Unfortunately, I have a tendency to remember snippets of things and not the source! I blame a chronic health condition - resulting in brain fog, amongst other things 🙄)
Thank you Sergio. I want to continue to learn about all this. I'll keep an eye on your posts and similar ones, I just can't go too deep or my brain gets scrambled! 😁
Sergio, your present to me this morning is one request: please discerningly reject everything in Sebastian's comment. Beyond being factually ridiculous, I fear the comment is actuated by a different spirit. Pray for that young man. Jesus knew that some people desperately need our intercession (Matthew 5:44).
I love the wisdom, Joseph. I appreciate it, the simple fact that he's here means he's reading and learning, whether he likes it or not. If it wasn't worth his time, he wouldn't be arguing, right? :) Love you heart Joseph!
This is how I've come to understand Genesis 3 for a while: that the "curse" wasn't necessarily God inflicting punishment over Adam and Eve's disobedience, but it was more of a diagnosis of what the world is now like as a consequence of that disobedience.
I think an aspect that's too often forgotten in church theology is nature, our relationship with the natural world, and God's relationship with us through it. David Pawson calls this a Greek infiltration of the church, which tends to focus purely on the philosophical, spiritual, and judicial, while ignoring the matters on, well, the material world.
But when we remove the dimension of Creation from our understanding of reality, we are left with a caricature of a capricious God whose will and conduct is as changeable as the weather, and a view of suffering that's reduced to rewards and punishment for human conduct, rather than a complex interplay between fallen humanity, corrupted nature, and God's merciful providence.
Instead, it is more helpful to understand the disorder we see in our world is a result of it being unmoored from His original order & design due to human rebellion, and that reconciliation with Him can bring restoration.
(of course, I've seen some pushback from believers and non-believers alike, saying that removing the consequences from God's direct causality limits His agency and sovereignty. What do you think of this?)
Christ is the humility of God embodied in human nature; the Eternal Love humbling itself, clothing itself in the garb of meekness and gentleness, to win and serve and save us.
And for thanks we nailed Him to the cross, and in His agony he looked down at us - denying Him, abandoning Him, and betraying Him - and in the greatest act of love in history, He said, ‘Father, forgive them, they don’t know what they are doing.’
He shed tears for those that shed His blood. Jesus was God and man in one person, tortured to utmost agony, and crying for us while dying for us, so that, far beyond the eve of Adam’s sin, God and man might reconcile and unite together again.
It is for these reasons that no one else holds or has held the place in the heart of the world which Jesus holds. While other gods may have been as devoutly worshiped, no other man has been so devoutly loved.
—Bridged Quotes from Various Authors
God gave Jesus eternally to us and this gift is the greatest Christmas gift ever given. But Christ is ours to take or leave, as we are all innkeepers who get to choose whether there is room enough for Jesus in our hearts. So the question is, will you take the Son?
Who Will Take the Son, By Unknown [Modified]
A wealthy man and his son loved to collect rare works of art. They had nearly everything in their gallery, from Picasso to Raphael. They would often spend hours together admiring and discussing the stunning compositions before them.
One day the son went to war. He was very courageous and died in battle while saving another soldier. The father was notified and grieved deeply for his only child.
About a month later, just before Christmas, there was a knock at the door. A young man stood there with a large gleaming package in his hands. He said, “Sir, you don’t know me, but I am the soldier for whom your son gave his life. He saved many lives that day, and he was carrying me to safety when a bullet struck him in his heart. In his shock his death was painless.
He often spoke about you and your shared love of art.” The young man brought forward his hands. “I know it isn’t much. I’m not a great artist, but I think your son would have wanted you to have this.”
The father unwrapped the parcel. It was a portrait of his son, painted by the young man. The father stared in awe at the way the soldier had captured the personality of his lost future on the canvas. The father was so drawn to his son’s eyes that his own eyes welled with tears. His throat seized. He thanked the young man as best he could and, nearly choking, offered to pay him for the priceless image. “Oh, no, sir. I could never repay what your son did for me. It is a gift.”
The father hung the portrait over his mantle. From then on whenever visitors came to call, he first took them to see the painting of his son before he presented any of the other great works they had collected together. ...And yet, still heartbroken, with only his son’s portrait to console - as well as torture by his absence - overtime the gentlemen’s body failed him as his heart was steadily cut-up from the sum total of gloom, grief is capable of rending.
There was to be a great auction of his paintings. Many influential people gathered, excited over seeing the fruit of the greatest artists and having an opportunity to purchase one for their collection. On the platform sat the painting of the man’s son. The auctioneer pounded the gavel.
“We will start the bidding with this picture of the son. Who will bid for this picture?” There was silence. Then a voice near the back of the room shouted, “We want to see the famous paintings. Skip that one.” But the auctioneer persisted. “Will someone bid for this painting? Who will start the bidding? $100. $200?”
Another voice shouted angrily. “We didn’t come to see this armature portrait! We came to see the Van Goughs, the Rembrandts. Get on with the real bids.” But still the auctioneer continued. “The son! Who will take the son?”
Finally, a voice came from the back of the room. It was the longtime gardener of the man and his son, of whom both he was fond. “I’ll give $10 for the painting.” Being a poor man, it was all he could afford. “We have $10, who will bid $20?”
“Give it to him for $10! Let’s see the masters.” But the auctioneer continued. “$10 is the bid, won’t someone bid $20?” The crowd was becoming angry. They didn’t want the image of the son. They wanted the more “worthy” investments for their collections. The auctioneer pounded the gavel. “Going once, twice, SOLD for $10!”
A man sitting on the second row shouted, “Now let’s get on with the collection!” But the auctioneer laid down his gavel. “I’m sorry, the auction is over.”
“What about the paintings?”
“All apologies. When I was called to conduct the auction, I was told of a secret stipulation in the will. I was not allowed to reveal that stipulation until this time. Only the painting of the son would be auctioned. Whoever bought that painting would inherit the entire estate, including the art collection. That man in the back who took the son gets everything.”
God gave his son over 2000 years ago to die on a cruel cross. Much like the auctioneer, His message today is, “The Son, the Son, who will take the Son?” Because, you see, whoever takes the Son, gets everything...
I am unpacking what you’ve said here and I am hoping you can shed some light on the New Testament authors’ treatment of the curse, particularly the cross, overcoming the curse, and Christ becoming the curse.
Cathy, you're not the only one to ask that question this evening. This is what I posted earlier :)
Yeshua was not cursed as a sinner and He did not become evil, rejected by the Father, or ontologically corrupt.
From a Hebrew frame, He entered the covenant curse — the penalty prescribed by Torah — by dying the death reserved for public covenant violators: “cursed is one hung on a tree” (Deut 21:23).
He stands in Israel’s place, bears the shame and consequence of covenant breach, and exhausts the curse mechanism of the Law without violating it Himself.
So Yeshua doesn’t become a curse in essence.
He carries the covenant consequence so blessing can flow again.
I enjoyed reading what you have learned by meditating on these texts. It seems to me the conclusions you have drawn didn't require any western reader to comprehend any scholarly Hebrew knowledge but as you suggest digging through that lens by understanding the back story of biblical authors and words often does reveal gems. I agree that the churchianity overview of the Genesis account is generally not very deep. It is part of my recent learning to do the work of meditating with the helper within to see there is something more here to learn. Your thoughts confirm that what happened by the fracture in the relationship of man and the earth was the result of the choice they made. It is important not to view it as merely a curse, although God at times refers to blessings and curses in similar terms, but rather reaping what we sew...so to speak. I wrote 3 short essays on Dominion over the Animals. Genesis 8 revisits the Eden story and a different dynamic between man, animals and the earth. I kinda went out on a limb with my conclusions but would appreciate any thoughts you might have.
Scripture often speaks this way: a person’s sin can bring consequences on a house, a land, a people, an environment—
That's why when Yahusha became the curse, the whole of creation 'groans' along with and for the son's of God to be made manifest.
We have a responsibility through the 'Recapitulation' of Christ to maintain, to occupy in exercising the dominion and kingdom mandate in walking out our salvation having placed us back in the garden.
Pertaining to the ground -
If My people, which are called by My name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin, and will 'HEAL THEIR LAND.'
For Christ has made known to us the mystery of His will according to His pleasure, which He purposed in Him & put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—
to bring 'unity to all things' in heaven and on earth under Christ which includes reclaiming the ground for God and who also declares the end from the beginning, so it was in the beginning so shall it be in the end, for where we stand is 'Holy ground'.
He has given us the land wherever we walk, wherever our feet tread we carry His Holy presence. How beautiful are the feet of those who are shod with the gospel of the good news, the good news of the gospel of peace!
Let us walk reclaiming declaring and decreeing the garden-city of Eden whatever our metitron to occupy what Christ has reversed & was cursed ground into the Holy land of the living God of Eden, Amen.
One more thing regarding the story of the fall of man. The “snake” wasn’t a snake at all. Serpentine was used to describe many gods of the day. Shimmering, shining beings.
What are your thoughts on this, Sergio?
That’s a great observation, Teresa. In short, it’s a voice that reframes God, think whispering and deceptive, and you’re right, not an actual snake 👊
Absolutely! Whispering and deceptive. He still sounds the same as he did then.
The HaSatan, the voice that knows Scripture well enough to quote it, justice well enough to weaponize it, and humanity well enough to wait for consent.
Well said. So true.
I know next to nothing about Hebrew, but my understanding is the word that has been translated as "serpent" has nothing to do with its shape. It has to do with cunning and shrewdness.
What if Satan appeared as a very attractive creature, capable of speech, highly intelligent, yet a creature that existed only in that form until he was cursed? Could "serpent" be the word the translators chose because it's the first thing most of us think of when we hear of a creature that lives life on its belly eating dust? The curse, "on your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life" happened after Adam and Eve violated the one boundary God set, and probably had nothing whatsoever to do with whatever form he took when he first appeared to Eve. Or does the original Hebrew have multiple meanings that include something with a serpentine shape?
The point I was making wasn’t about shape, it was about appearance. It was about the being not having been a snake at all. I’m certain the shining, shimmering being was beautiful to the eye.
Dear Brother Sergio. Thanks to you and a few others, I've hopped off the depravity train for something that keeps our standing with God without being pathetic.
This is so good, thanks Sergio
Thank you Kevin! I appreciate it!
Thank you for this explanation Sergio.
I haven't been taught any of the more extreme ideas you list. But I often wondered where these ideas about how badly God views humanity, male domination and the attitude towards Eve (and therefore women) came from. These ideas are not my experience of God and I'vnever never been able to match them up.
I've heard others rant about them and 'knew' somehow they were wrong but had no basis to refute them. I do now!
It's sobering also to see your understanding of how these mistaken ideas impact other areas of theology and society.
So thank you for explaining.
Wait till I get to sparing the rod and spoiling the child, Micheal Pearl has explaining to do! 😁
I will keep my eyes peeled for that one! 😁
Well, Sergio...this one will take a couple of days to unpack.
The path of doctrine to denomination to culture...undeniably true
The Edenic covenant was the first...it was broken, there are consequences
Curse vs consequences...an excellent distinction I hope to remember
Moral self-authorization...much more precise than simple pride
The psychological baggage of feeling cursed and the tie-in to our concept of hell...thanks for that rabbit hole
Nicely done. A true bonus is getting a point of view that reflects Hebrew thought, something very few of us have learned.
I love your comments. I always look forward to seeing your perspective!
Thank you, friend. Your’s is my must-read column. 👍
Thank you!
I just thought, if God didn't curse mankind, why do we say Jesus became a curse for us? Why did we need Him to do that if He wasn't lifting a curse from us?
Yeshua was not cursed as a sinner and He did not become evil, rejected by the Father, or ontologically corrupt.
From a Hebrew frame, He entered the covenant curse — the penalty prescribed by Torah — by dying the death reserved for public covenant violators: “cursed is one hung on a tree” (Deut 21:23).
He stands in Israel’s place, bears the shame and consequence of covenant breach, and exhausts the curse mechanism of the Law without violating it Himself.
So Yeshua doesn’t become a curse in essence.
He carries the covenant consequence so blessing can flow again.
OK. Thanks Sergio.
So this is quite complex, nuanced.
And some worship songs don't help, they perpetuate a misconception. "The Father turns His face away" and "...became a curse for me". Though other songs are very helpful indeed. "...kissed a guilty world in love" (Unfortunately, I have a tendency to remember snippets of things and not the source! I blame a chronic health condition - resulting in brain fog, amongst other things 🙄)
Maybe this will shed some light.
https://substack.com/@mrdesoto/note/c-191758729?r=2nnvf1&utm_source=notes-share-action&utm_medium=web
Praying for your health, I get it... ugh!
Thank you Sergio. I want to continue to learn about all this. I'll keep an eye on your posts and similar ones, I just can't go too deep or my brain gets scrambled! 😁
Sergio, your present to me this morning is one request: please discerningly reject everything in Sebastian's comment. Beyond being factually ridiculous, I fear the comment is actuated by a different spirit. Pray for that young man. Jesus knew that some people desperately need our intercession (Matthew 5:44).
I love the wisdom, Joseph. I appreciate it, the simple fact that he's here means he's reading and learning, whether he likes it or not. If it wasn't worth his time, he wouldn't be arguing, right? :) Love you heart Joseph!
Thank you for writing this, brother Sergio.
This is how I've come to understand Genesis 3 for a while: that the "curse" wasn't necessarily God inflicting punishment over Adam and Eve's disobedience, but it was more of a diagnosis of what the world is now like as a consequence of that disobedience.
I think an aspect that's too often forgotten in church theology is nature, our relationship with the natural world, and God's relationship with us through it. David Pawson calls this a Greek infiltration of the church, which tends to focus purely on the philosophical, spiritual, and judicial, while ignoring the matters on, well, the material world.
But when we remove the dimension of Creation from our understanding of reality, we are left with a caricature of a capricious God whose will and conduct is as changeable as the weather, and a view of suffering that's reduced to rewards and punishment for human conduct, rather than a complex interplay between fallen humanity, corrupted nature, and God's merciful providence.
Instead, it is more helpful to understand the disorder we see in our world is a result of it being unmoored from His original order & design due to human rebellion, and that reconciliation with Him can bring restoration.
(of course, I've seen some pushback from believers and non-believers alike, saying that removing the consequences from God's direct causality limits His agency and sovereignty. What do you think of this?)
I love how you stated that, it’s all about relationship. Thank you 🙏
Amen
Thanks, brother. You confirmed a lot of little niggling details that I was not really conscious of.
That makes it worth it!!
Thank you Sergio, speaking of redemption:
Christ is the humility of God embodied in human nature; the Eternal Love humbling itself, clothing itself in the garb of meekness and gentleness, to win and serve and save us.
And for thanks we nailed Him to the cross, and in His agony he looked down at us - denying Him, abandoning Him, and betraying Him - and in the greatest act of love in history, He said, ‘Father, forgive them, they don’t know what they are doing.’
He shed tears for those that shed His blood. Jesus was God and man in one person, tortured to utmost agony, and crying for us while dying for us, so that, far beyond the eve of Adam’s sin, God and man might reconcile and unite together again.
It is for these reasons that no one else holds or has held the place in the heart of the world which Jesus holds. While other gods may have been as devoutly worshiped, no other man has been so devoutly loved.
—Bridged Quotes from Various Authors
God gave Jesus eternally to us and this gift is the greatest Christmas gift ever given. But Christ is ours to take or leave, as we are all innkeepers who get to choose whether there is room enough for Jesus in our hearts. So the question is, will you take the Son?
Who Will Take the Son, By Unknown [Modified]
A wealthy man and his son loved to collect rare works of art. They had nearly everything in their gallery, from Picasso to Raphael. They would often spend hours together admiring and discussing the stunning compositions before them.
One day the son went to war. He was very courageous and died in battle while saving another soldier. The father was notified and grieved deeply for his only child.
About a month later, just before Christmas, there was a knock at the door. A young man stood there with a large gleaming package in his hands. He said, “Sir, you don’t know me, but I am the soldier for whom your son gave his life. He saved many lives that day, and he was carrying me to safety when a bullet struck him in his heart. In his shock his death was painless.
He often spoke about you and your shared love of art.” The young man brought forward his hands. “I know it isn’t much. I’m not a great artist, but I think your son would have wanted you to have this.”
The father unwrapped the parcel. It was a portrait of his son, painted by the young man. The father stared in awe at the way the soldier had captured the personality of his lost future on the canvas. The father was so drawn to his son’s eyes that his own eyes welled with tears. His throat seized. He thanked the young man as best he could and, nearly choking, offered to pay him for the priceless image. “Oh, no, sir. I could never repay what your son did for me. It is a gift.”
The father hung the portrait over his mantle. From then on whenever visitors came to call, he first took them to see the painting of his son before he presented any of the other great works they had collected together. ...And yet, still heartbroken, with only his son’s portrait to console - as well as torture by his absence - overtime the gentlemen’s body failed him as his heart was steadily cut-up from the sum total of gloom, grief is capable of rending.
There was to be a great auction of his paintings. Many influential people gathered, excited over seeing the fruit of the greatest artists and having an opportunity to purchase one for their collection. On the platform sat the painting of the man’s son. The auctioneer pounded the gavel.
“We will start the bidding with this picture of the son. Who will bid for this picture?” There was silence. Then a voice near the back of the room shouted, “We want to see the famous paintings. Skip that one.” But the auctioneer persisted. “Will someone bid for this painting? Who will start the bidding? $100. $200?”
Another voice shouted angrily. “We didn’t come to see this armature portrait! We came to see the Van Goughs, the Rembrandts. Get on with the real bids.” But still the auctioneer continued. “The son! Who will take the son?”
Finally, a voice came from the back of the room. It was the longtime gardener of the man and his son, of whom both he was fond. “I’ll give $10 for the painting.” Being a poor man, it was all he could afford. “We have $10, who will bid $20?”
“Give it to him for $10! Let’s see the masters.” But the auctioneer continued. “$10 is the bid, won’t someone bid $20?” The crowd was becoming angry. They didn’t want the image of the son. They wanted the more “worthy” investments for their collections. The auctioneer pounded the gavel. “Going once, twice, SOLD for $10!”
A man sitting on the second row shouted, “Now let’s get on with the collection!” But the auctioneer laid down his gavel. “I’m sorry, the auction is over.”
“What about the paintings?”
“All apologies. When I was called to conduct the auction, I was told of a secret stipulation in the will. I was not allowed to reveal that stipulation until this time. Only the painting of the son would be auctioned. Whoever bought that painting would inherit the entire estate, including the art collection. That man in the back who took the son gets everything.”
God gave his son over 2000 years ago to die on a cruel cross. Much like the auctioneer, His message today is, “The Son, the Son, who will take the Son?” Because, you see, whoever takes the Son, gets everything...
Excerpt from and more like this here: https://tritorch.substack.com/p/the-light-is-gathering-3-unto-earth
Merry Christmas!
ha that was a tear jerker, thank you for sharing! Have a blessed holiday!
I am unpacking what you’ve said here and I am hoping you can shed some light on the New Testament authors’ treatment of the curse, particularly the cross, overcoming the curse, and Christ becoming the curse.
Cathy, you're not the only one to ask that question this evening. This is what I posted earlier :)
Yeshua was not cursed as a sinner and He did not become evil, rejected by the Father, or ontologically corrupt.
From a Hebrew frame, He entered the covenant curse — the penalty prescribed by Torah — by dying the death reserved for public covenant violators: “cursed is one hung on a tree” (Deut 21:23).
He stands in Israel’s place, bears the shame and consequence of covenant breach, and exhausts the curse mechanism of the Law without violating it Himself.
So Yeshua doesn’t become a curse in essence.
He carries the covenant consequence so blessing can flow again.
Also the curse of the ground is gone after the Flood…..
I enjoyed reading what you have learned by meditating on these texts. It seems to me the conclusions you have drawn didn't require any western reader to comprehend any scholarly Hebrew knowledge but as you suggest digging through that lens by understanding the back story of biblical authors and words often does reveal gems. I agree that the churchianity overview of the Genesis account is generally not very deep. It is part of my recent learning to do the work of meditating with the helper within to see there is something more here to learn. Your thoughts confirm that what happened by the fracture in the relationship of man and the earth was the result of the choice they made. It is important not to view it as merely a curse, although God at times refers to blessings and curses in similar terms, but rather reaping what we sew...so to speak. I wrote 3 short essays on Dominion over the Animals. Genesis 8 revisits the Eden story and a different dynamic between man, animals and the earth. I kinda went out on a limb with my conclusions but would appreciate any thoughts you might have.
Are they on your page?
yes
You have my word I will check them out my friend. Thank you for taking the time to read. I appreciate you.!
L♡VE this!
Scripture often speaks this way: a person’s sin can bring consequences on a house, a land, a people, an environment—
That's why when Yahusha became the curse, the whole of creation 'groans' along with and for the son's of God to be made manifest.
We have a responsibility through the 'Recapitulation' of Christ to maintain, to occupy in exercising the dominion and kingdom mandate in walking out our salvation having placed us back in the garden.
Pertaining to the ground -
If My people, which are called by My name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin, and will 'HEAL THEIR LAND.'
For Christ has made known to us the mystery of His will according to His pleasure, which He purposed in Him & put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—
to bring 'unity to all things' in heaven and on earth under Christ which includes reclaiming the ground for God and who also declares the end from the beginning, so it was in the beginning so shall it be in the end, for where we stand is 'Holy ground'.
He has given us the land wherever we walk, wherever our feet tread we carry His Holy presence. How beautiful are the feet of those who are shod with the gospel of the good news, the good news of the gospel of peace!
Let us walk reclaiming declaring and decreeing the garden-city of Eden whatever our metitron to occupy what Christ has reversed & was cursed ground into the Holy land of the living God of Eden, Amen.
Amen
Yeah bro! 🙌🏻