I haven’t said much to you in a very long time. You continue to develop my thinking and strengthen articulation of the falsehoods Bible-belt religion inculcates around here.
Regarding this particular essay: I find a keen set of words that help. Thank you.
I have recognized for years now, that if I fail identifying with the Our of the Lord’s prayer, I understand very little. I have been called to peace within the body of Christ (3: 12-16). I will bless the Lord forever and ever, and ever I will extol Him: even I may enter His Presence because of His grace and action. The angst of individual existence is ended. Such is the only singularity I know, that I am whole by submission to the Head. By the same submission, my experience of I is established within the whole of the group found in Him. I am part of them, and they are part of me.
The “you must have a personal relationship with Jesus” regularly bugled from pulpits across this region is simply clerics of the Me Culture securing a sure-fire selling point. Yet, it is a totally superfluous phrase. Aren’t all relationships a personal experience on both sides?
The list of the fruits of the spirit written in a column literally stand on the feet of self-discipline. Feet take an individual everywhere; without them, one’s destination is nowhere. Brings to mind a certain servant standing in one spot and burying his one talent.
1 John 2:6 indeed.
I currently take any listener who will go with me to 1 Samuel 5:22, Hosea 6:6, and Matthew 12:7. My intent is to reframe (and shorten) the discussion to three clear directives in the written Word: bend the knee to God accepting obedience to Him because of the atonement provided by His sacrifice; learn faithfulness by submission to sanctification (intent of a heart unfolding as human action is the fruit of salvation not a currency being spent to gain salvation), and grow spiritual maturity evidenced by agency of the Lord’s compassion. Such is the logical response of faithfulness to Love, the head of those listed fruits, eh?
Equally logical, one must know and rest in the Holy Spirit to manifest the fruit of His Presence. Completely reliant on Him—as Christian religious rhetoric would exhort—the feet of self-discipline must move.
Thank you for sharing this, and I appreciate the care, thought, and research you put into writing it. I hear the sincere plea in your words, and I want to respond in that same spirit of respect. I am grateful for what you wrote because you brought to my awareness how God works through human history and specific "moments in time" to accomplish His purpose.
From my perspective, looking back at history (including 325 CE)isn't something that threatens my faith. When the Council of Nicaea met, the intention wasn't to attack Jewish roots, but to protect the core truth of who Jesus is during a specific moment in time. History moves under God's providence, and by then, believers were dispersed across many nations just as Scripture foretold.
When I look at history, I see that God’s timing is at work in all of it. Jesus Himself was crucified because He challenged the establishment and went against the norms of His day;that was an important moment in time ordained by God, not just human politics. In the same way, the history that followed unfolded under His sovereign care, and we continue to wait on His perfect timing for the Second Coming. No one knows when it is going to happen, we know it will and that is not ‘man-made’. It is a promise that all us await.
To me, the story didn't stop or become 'man-made.' My faith isn't built on human traditions or calendar dates, but entirely on Jesus Christ;His life, His sacrifice, and His promise.
I really value that we can look at Scripture and history together and have an open, honest conversation. I share this not to debate, but simply to offer how I see God's hand at work
I forgot to mention that there is some conflict within Orthodoxy about the dates of certain feasts, particularly because some Orthodox Churches follow the Old Calendar and others follow the New Calendar.
Christmas — the main calendar difference
The Old Calendar (Julian Calendar) is currently 13 days behind the civil/Gregorian calendar.
So Old Calendar Orthodox celebrate:
• Christmas — 7 January
• Other fixed feasts are also celebrated 13 days later according to the civil calendar.
New Calendar Orthodox use the Revised Julian Calendar for fixed feasts, so they celebrate:
• Christmas — 25 December
As Greek Orthodox, we generally follow the New Calendar, so we celebrate Christmas on 25 December. The Russian Orthodox Church traditionally follows the Old Calendar, so Christmas is celebrated on 7 January.
Easter is a different story.
Easter, or Pascha, is not simply 13 days later for Old Calendar Orthodox.
Most Orthodox Churches, whether Old or New Calendar, calculate Pascha according to the traditional Orthodox Paschal calculation. Therefore, Old Calendar and New Calendar Orthodox will normally celebrate Easter on the same Sunday.
The Orthodox calculation of Pascha is connected with the traditional ecclesiastical calculation of the spring equinox, the full moon and the relationship to the Jewish Passover.
I remember going to church on Palm Sunday and noticing that Jewish people were also celebrating Passover around the same time. When I understood the connection, I felt a sense of peace and a deeper connection to the story of Christ and what He wants us to continue.
An Old Calendar Greek Orthodox Christian and a New Calendar Greek Orthodox Christian will generally celebrate Pascha together.
And I don’t think the difference in dates makes Protestant Easter more correct or Orthodox Easter more correct, or vice versa. Dates are dates, and calendars are human ways of measuring time. God is not confined by our calendars. From God’s perspective, there is no human distinction of dates and times as we understand them.
For me, what matters is the meaning behind the feast — Christ, His death and Resurrection, and what He calls us to continue living out in our lives.
Job was called 'tam' by God himself, several times (in Chapters 1 & 2). Is this different than 'tamim' or 'tamam'? We know Job was not sinless, so it certainly does not mean he was perfect. Noah is called 'tamim', and we know he was special (to God) but he was not sinless. Abram was charged to be 'tamim' before God but we know he was not sinless.
None of these men (nor Daniel, nor Elijah, nor even Enoch) could / would have been 'tamim' enough to bear the sin of others. Only Jesus had the authority to forgive sin (all sin), as he showed in Mark 2 (mirrored in Matthew and Luke). 2 Cor. 5:17 seems to teach that his perfect life (fulfilling the law, obeying the Father flawlessly) gave him the righteousness that is transferred to believers (that covers / fills believers) and allows them to have salvation. This is the good news that allows us to be righteous in God's sight, from faith to faith (Romans 1).
The 'work of Christ' is not just his death, but what and how he lived (as you noted). It is an example (be imitators of Christ) but it is more than that. There shouldn't be any tension in that statement.
So after all that and it was very interesting, are you saying that we are saved by grace alone, but also we should model,our life after His life, and take those works as gifts to the Lord?
Thank you, Sergio. I think I've told you I'm Catholic. So far. I'm Portuguese, and I've always lived in Portugal. That doesn't mean I'm dense or can't think. Even though I probably ask more questions than I should...?
What is really hard for me to understand is why you have to write such a gigantic text, and an even longer at Berean, to argue against arguments people apparently raise when you write something as beautiful and illuminating as the alternative version you give us.
Mistake me not: I love reading every word you write. It's a pleasure, intellectually and spiritually.
I haven’t said much to you in a very long time. You continue to develop my thinking and strengthen articulation of the falsehoods Bible-belt religion inculcates around here.
Regarding this particular essay: I find a keen set of words that help. Thank you.
I have recognized for years now, that if I fail identifying with the Our of the Lord’s prayer, I understand very little. I have been called to peace within the body of Christ (3: 12-16). I will bless the Lord forever and ever, and ever I will extol Him: even I may enter His Presence because of His grace and action. The angst of individual existence is ended. Such is the only singularity I know, that I am whole by submission to the Head. By the same submission, my experience of I is established within the whole of the group found in Him. I am part of them, and they are part of me.
The “you must have a personal relationship with Jesus” regularly bugled from pulpits across this region is simply clerics of the Me Culture securing a sure-fire selling point. Yet, it is a totally superfluous phrase. Aren’t all relationships a personal experience on both sides?
The list of the fruits of the spirit written in a column literally stand on the feet of self-discipline. Feet take an individual everywhere; without them, one’s destination is nowhere. Brings to mind a certain servant standing in one spot and burying his one talent.
1 John 2:6 indeed.
I currently take any listener who will go with me to 1 Samuel 5:22, Hosea 6:6, and Matthew 12:7. My intent is to reframe (and shorten) the discussion to three clear directives in the written Word: bend the knee to God accepting obedience to Him because of the atonement provided by His sacrifice; learn faithfulness by submission to sanctification (intent of a heart unfolding as human action is the fruit of salvation not a currency being spent to gain salvation), and grow spiritual maturity evidenced by agency of the Lord’s compassion. Such is the logical response of faithfulness to Love, the head of those listed fruits, eh?
Equally logical, one must know and rest in the Holy Spirit to manifest the fruit of His Presence. Completely reliant on Him—as Christian religious rhetoric would exhort—the feet of self-discipline must move.
Amen amen amen 🙏
Thank you for sharing this, and I appreciate the care, thought, and research you put into writing it. I hear the sincere plea in your words, and I want to respond in that same spirit of respect. I am grateful for what you wrote because you brought to my awareness how God works through human history and specific "moments in time" to accomplish His purpose.
From my perspective, looking back at history (including 325 CE)isn't something that threatens my faith. When the Council of Nicaea met, the intention wasn't to attack Jewish roots, but to protect the core truth of who Jesus is during a specific moment in time. History moves under God's providence, and by then, believers were dispersed across many nations just as Scripture foretold.
When I look at history, I see that God’s timing is at work in all of it. Jesus Himself was crucified because He challenged the establishment and went against the norms of His day;that was an important moment in time ordained by God, not just human politics. In the same way, the history that followed unfolded under His sovereign care, and we continue to wait on His perfect timing for the Second Coming. No one knows when it is going to happen, we know it will and that is not ‘man-made’. It is a promise that all us await.
To me, the story didn't stop or become 'man-made.' My faith isn't built on human traditions or calendar dates, but entirely on Jesus Christ;His life, His sacrifice, and His promise.
I really value that we can look at Scripture and history together and have an open, honest conversation. I share this not to debate, but simply to offer how I see God's hand at work
Thank you for sharing your reflections.
They gave me great peace.
I share most of your views, as I share some of Sergio's, most particularly as I learn where his come from. He is right in a lot of things.
It was wonderful to get to know you ❤️
Thankyou for your support .💕
Gracie,
I forgot to mention that there is some conflict within Orthodoxy about the dates of certain feasts, particularly because some Orthodox Churches follow the Old Calendar and others follow the New Calendar.
Christmas — the main calendar difference
The Old Calendar (Julian Calendar) is currently 13 days behind the civil/Gregorian calendar.
So Old Calendar Orthodox celebrate:
• Christmas — 7 January
• Other fixed feasts are also celebrated 13 days later according to the civil calendar.
New Calendar Orthodox use the Revised Julian Calendar for fixed feasts, so they celebrate:
• Christmas — 25 December
As Greek Orthodox, we generally follow the New Calendar, so we celebrate Christmas on 25 December. The Russian Orthodox Church traditionally follows the Old Calendar, so Christmas is celebrated on 7 January.
Easter is a different story.
Easter, or Pascha, is not simply 13 days later for Old Calendar Orthodox.
Most Orthodox Churches, whether Old or New Calendar, calculate Pascha according to the traditional Orthodox Paschal calculation. Therefore, Old Calendar and New Calendar Orthodox will normally celebrate Easter on the same Sunday.
The Orthodox calculation of Pascha is connected with the traditional ecclesiastical calculation of the spring equinox, the full moon and the relationship to the Jewish Passover.
I remember going to church on Palm Sunday and noticing that Jewish people were also celebrating Passover around the same time. When I understood the connection, I felt a sense of peace and a deeper connection to the story of Christ and what He wants us to continue.
An Old Calendar Greek Orthodox Christian and a New Calendar Greek Orthodox Christian will generally celebrate Pascha together.
And I don’t think the difference in dates makes Protestant Easter more correct or Orthodox Easter more correct, or vice versa. Dates are dates, and calendars are human ways of measuring time. God is not confined by our calendars. From God’s perspective, there is no human distinction of dates and times as we understand them.
For me, what matters is the meaning behind the feast — Christ, His death and Resurrection, and what He calls us to continue living out in our lives.
I hope I have not confused you more .
“Are you after acquittal, or are you after wholeness?” - love it
Job was called 'tam' by God himself, several times (in Chapters 1 & 2). Is this different than 'tamim' or 'tamam'? We know Job was not sinless, so it certainly does not mean he was perfect. Noah is called 'tamim', and we know he was special (to God) but he was not sinless. Abram was charged to be 'tamim' before God but we know he was not sinless.
None of these men (nor Daniel, nor Elijah, nor even Enoch) could / would have been 'tamim' enough to bear the sin of others. Only Jesus had the authority to forgive sin (all sin), as he showed in Mark 2 (mirrored in Matthew and Luke). 2 Cor. 5:17 seems to teach that his perfect life (fulfilling the law, obeying the Father flawlessly) gave him the righteousness that is transferred to believers (that covers / fills believers) and allows them to have salvation. This is the good news that allows us to be righteous in God's sight, from faith to faith (Romans 1).
The 'work of Christ' is not just his death, but what and how he lived (as you noted). It is an example (be imitators of Christ) but it is more than that. There shouldn't be any tension in that statement.
Amen!
So after all that and it was very interesting, are you saying that we are saved by grace alone, but also we should model,our life after His life, and take those works as gifts to the Lord?
1 John 2:6 😊
Much to ponder
Thank you, Sergio. I think I've told you I'm Catholic. So far. I'm Portuguese, and I've always lived in Portugal. That doesn't mean I'm dense or can't think. Even though I probably ask more questions than I should...?
What is really hard for me to understand is why you have to write such a gigantic text, and an even longer at Berean, to argue against arguments people apparently raise when you write something as beautiful and illuminating as the alternative version you give us.
Mistake me not: I love reading every word you write. It's a pleasure, intellectually and spiritually.
But the opposition leaves me dumfound.